Denys Nazarenko

Caitlin Morrissey 

So, Denys, what is the DNA of Kyiv?

Denys Nazarenko

It’s an interesting question for me. It's comprised of districts in the city of Kyiv, the way they've been historically developing. And then what we’ll see, I would say, quite frankly over the recent 40-50 years is that it's really been coming down to local communities. We might not use a term at that time, but it's really one. Well, I am a sixth-generation Kyivan, born on Lesia Ukrainka boulevard. It’s named after one of the most famous Ukrainian writers, best known for her poems and plays. And from what I remember, it was quiet. Also, there was a historical museum, Kyiv Fortress, not far from my building. Those were my first memories. Then I moved to another district in the city of Kyiv, and there were lots and lots of amazing chestnuts.

I remember sitting in kindergarten, and there were these huge trees. When I went back there a few years ago, they were still huge; nothing had changed. And you probably might have seen that Kyiv has been known as the City of Chestnuts, so it's still beautiful with blue and yellow and pink colours. So, for me, the DNA of Kyiv, is comprised of communities with their unique culture, their unique experiences and the unique footprint, and it comes in all areas. So how you call some local sights and landmarks, what language people are using, some specific words which probably should be added to local urban dictionary, and the way that people even present reality. It’s so different and it's so lovely. And when you meet somebody who, ‘Oh, I believe in that’, okay, I know you remember that. Yeah, that's cool. And I remember in my childhood there was one area in the city of Kyiv where we had a Trolley Route. It's not there anymore, but I do remember that. And I was arguing with one guy, and he had the old reference book, yeah, it was there. It just was replaced with a bus. These communities, people they experience the things that strive for things a lot, and I hope that would remain valid for the all the time that our city exists.

Caitlin Morrissey 

You began to answer our question about how many different Kyivs there are. Are there many, or is there one? If there are more than one, what differentiates those different Kyivs?

Denys Nazarenko

I’d say it’s an interesting one because Kyiv has a unique dynamic. You have the historical centre, known as Old Kyiv, and then the city has expanded and, in some ways, rediscovered its inner circles. Historically, most business, culture, and research facilities have been concentrated near the city centre. Meanwhile, the newer buildings and districts, located further out - not quite the outskirts but outside the central areas - were designed more as places for relaxation and peaceful living.

This distinction is also reflected in the pace of life. One of my favourite cities, besides Kyiv, is London. In London, you feel like everyone is always on the move - focused on their own tasks and uninterested in interfering with your life, as long as you don’t disturb anyone. Kyiv is similar in the city centre, where you’ll see people bustling around, working hard to create and achieve something meaningful. But there’s a key difference: here, even strangers genuinely care. If someone notices that you need help, they will offer it or try to make things as peaceful and positive as possible.

For me, the many faces of Kyiv revolve around the experiences and the people. To be honest, unless you find yourself walking down a dark street close to midnight on an exceptionally bad day, Kyiv feels just as safe as Barcelona or any other major city. Ultimately, it’s still all about the people.

Caitlin Morrissey 

And is there a way to summarise who lives in Kyiv and what the opportunities are for coming to Kyiv?

Denys Nazarenko

I think the situation has evolved significantly in recent years. Kyiv is now home to a diverse mix of people. There are those who were born and have lived here for a long time, and others who have moved here - whether from the Kyiv region, other cities, or even the western or eastern parts of Ukraine. Many come to build businesses, pursue education, or engage in research.

As I’ve said before, it’s not about where you come from or your origins - it’s about your love for the city. If you truly care about Kyiv, you’ll be welcomed, and people will support you. However, if someone comes here with a negative mindset, saying, “Oh no, everything is bad, it’s all wrong, I’ve seen better places,” that’s fine - everyone is entitled to their opinion. But such an attitude might prevent them from connecting with the city’s unique vibe.

We’re constantly looking for ways to improve life in the city, but our love for Kyiv remains steadfast. It’s a city built on service and love, not hate.

When I began working on Kyiv’s digital strategy years ago, I drew inspiration from an unlikely source: music. As a guitar player, I admire Nile Rodgers, one of my favourites. I remember watching an interview with him from the Ibiza Music Festival in 2014 or 2015, where he explained how he writes music. He said something brilliant: “Well, this is how my brain is wired.”

That phrase resonates deeply with me because my brain is wired to serve people and the community. It is one of my greatest honours to contribute to something meaningful for my city. From my university days to meeting new colleagues across various workplaces, I’ve noticed that Kyiv attracts people seeking opportunity. They come here to improve themselves, to shape themselves into better versions, and the city provides the opportunities to do just that.

Caitlin Morrissey 

You mentioned there that it's a city that sort of enables personal freedoms, but that it's a city where people are also on the lookout to help others where they can, and you've also just described in yourself, this sense of hardwiring to be people-oriented. Where has that come from in Kyiv? Is there a way to understand what might have created that caring or sort of people-oriented disposition among Kyivans?

Denys Nazarenko

No, I mean, it probably comes from two main sources, in my opinion. First, there are historical roots and cultural influences. We are still raised in a loving, caring environment, where Eastern Christianity has left a significant mark - not so much in the sense of traditional rituals, but in fostering values like tolerance, support, and acceptance of others as they are.

On the other hand, the many trials and tribulations the city has endured over the years have crystallised a deep sense of personal responsibility. For example, regardless of which political party is in charge, the type of music that’s popular, or who holds official positions, there is a collective understanding that some things are simply my responsibility. It’s my responsibility to take care of the courtyard near my home. It’s my responsibility not to throw waste onto the streets.

This mindset extends further. Even if I’m not the most influential person in the city, I recognise that through my network of connections, I can still have an impact. If I share good examples, care for others, and act in a way that benefits the community, I can hope that this will inspire others to do the same. It’s not about personal gain - I honestly couldn’t care less about that. Instead, it’s about contributing something positive, motivating others, and creating a safer, more positive environment. I know this might sound a bit abstract, but it’s really about aiming for a higher level of collective responsibility and mutual support. It’s a perspective that not only shapes our city but also strengthens our communities.

Let me share another example. In January 2024, I had the privilege of visiting London to attend the UKGovCamp event, a fantastic gathering of senior officials from local authorities across the UK. I was there representing the City of Kyiv, and we had a dedicated session discussing how Kyiv’s future should look in the post-war period. What really touched me was hearing that one of the key topics of discussion was rebuilding trust between residents and city governance, particularly through open data and public-private partnerships. This aligns perfectly with the objectives outlined in Kyiv’s digital strategy, so it was incredibly validating to see this approach echoed by such an esteemed group. It reaffirmed my belief that creating an environment where people feel safe and motivated to do the right things can nurture a culture of trust and collaboration. When done effectively, it becomes self-sustaining, ensuring long-term success and resilience.

Greg Clark 

Denys, what you're saying, it doesn't sound superficial at all. It sounds very deep. And you're describing a city that is both, on the one hand, diverse, with all its different districts and its locations. On the other hand, you're describing a sense of community, a sense of social capital and a sense of mutual responsibility. I think that's an important theme that's come through that, you know, you belong to Kyiv, and that gives you a certain set of obligations, but if you keep those obligations, Kyiv remains a great place for everyone, and you sort of understand your responsibilities in that way. So, I think you made that very clear. And Caitlin's question, it's also my question, in a way, it was this just a natural inheritance of the people who settled there, or was it because these behaviours were necessary in the past? So, for example, when we look at Amsterdam, you discover in Amsterdam very, very collaborative culture, very responsible collaborative culture. Why? Because they had to stop the city from flooding for about 400 years. They had to work together in teams to prevent the water from flooding the city. So, is there something in the old history of Kyiv that creates this mutual dependence, this responsibility, this social capital, or is it just these people are like that?

Denys Nazarenko

I think your reference is right, and I won’t point to specific historical events, but overall, being in a-- like, if you consider this example, it was interesting from the start of the war. So, if you have typical article about Ukraine, especially if that has any influence by Russians, you'll see, okay, Ukraine is a country of old farmers, uneducated, etc. Okay, and then you say, let's just check the theory and it looks like how it turned out that they have the country, which is larger than France, with the territory. How do you know that-- how did it turn out that one of the most famous soldiers in the medieval time were from Ukraine? Something does not compute. And yes, it really comes from that point that coming together, it was a really a must to be able to stand against any evil or any power that's trying to destroy people here. So, it comes naturally. Maybe there's something in a real historical DNA of people itself. So yes, we had to survive. But in a way, it worked out that we're not surviving by destroying other people, but we're surviving of really coming to this collaboration.

Greg Clark 

Very clear. Denys, thank you. And you can understand that historically, with the proximity to the big Russia for many, many centuries, and the proximity to other empires, the Lithuanian Empire, the Polish Empire, and if you like that Ukraine has needed to constantly defend itself against bigger powers that has never been in a position where it could enlarge its territory by attacking bigger powers. So, I guess this is part of it. Thank you.

Denys Nazarenko

I know. I'll give you another example here. I made a DNA test with 23andme a few years ago, and I was surprised to find out I have certain part from Scandinavian. Okay, and then if you think about that. Well, people who allegedly built city of Kyiv originally, they were Scandinavians, so no big surprise. And this real blend, when I have the Polish and some others, it really enriched here. So, it supports what you've mentioned about their diversity, inclusion that way. So, the bigger, that we could learn from some, but it's great, and it doesn't mean that we lose something.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Yeah, it's really it's fascinating for you, to put it that way, from your own DNA test to see all those layers of, I guess it would be Viking history from Northern Europe, and then the Polish. So, you can read the history of Ukraine and Kyiv certainly, through your own DNA. And that's where the metaphor really comes in here is that this idea that you could read the history of the city by taking the genetic code as a metaphor. But there was also something you mentioned in your answer to the original question about, where does this sort of disposition to be caring and people oriented emerge from, which was, you said that part of it was about the fact that Kyiv has faced trials and tribulations, and this disposition was almost born out of necessity. But then you also mentioned, I think, if I heard correctly, the influence of Eastern Christianity and those religious values in the city. Is there anything more that you'd want to say about that? Because it's an interesting sort of point to raise in terms of how those values may, I guess, rub off on or shape the way that people relate to each other within Ukraine, but particularly Kyiv?

Denys Nazarenko

I would say that historically, churches have been centres of attraction, where communities would gather for Sunday Mass, followed by social interactions. Libraries supported by the church were often open to the public, creating a foundation for social hubs several hundred years ago. It was less about religion itself and more about bringing people together. Traditions connected the community, fostering a sense of belonging and shared purpose.

You may have heard that when Christianity was introduced to this region more than a thousand years ago, it blended naturally with older religions, which were not entirely welcoming of the change. This fusion is still reflected in aspects of our culture, such as folk songs sung by children during Christmas time. It’s an example of how older traditions and Christianity merged over time.

Again, it was fundamentally about the community rather than religion alone. To draw a parallel, consider the role of the church in the Black community in the United States during the 1960s and 1970s. Churches served as places of power, education, support, and social change. In a way, the role of churches in our region started much earlier but had a similar communal impact.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Yeah, an important part of the social infrastructure of many communities. But it's interesting to hear from your point of view about the place of the church in Kyiv. To move on to a different question, and we've got one here about the key geological or geographical features that shape the city, obviously, the Dnipro River is one, and we've heard a little bit about the hills, but from your point of view, what are the main sort of geographical features that shaped the city and its evolution?

Denys Nazarenko

That’s a great question. I’d probably start with the city of Dnipro, which has a major waterway that shapes its landscape and plays a key role in navigation and the transportation of goods. Similarly, Kyiv is rich in waterways, including the Desna River, the Lybid River, and the Siret River, which flow through different parts of the city.

Kyiv is also home to several islands within the Dnipro River. For example, Trukhaniv Island is now a popular tourist and recreational area. Then there’s Hydropark, originally known for its beaches, amusement facilities, and sports amenities. Another notable site is Muromets Park, also referred to historically as Venetian Island, a large, green part of the city where people can reconnect with nature, thanks to its small river channels and abundant trees.

Zhukov Island is another important area, though it is somewhat restricted because it is home to many birds and rare animal species. While I wouldn’t call Kyiv the largest park in Europe - that would be an exaggeration - it truly is a beautiful city.

Kyiv also features a mix of private residential areas, numerous parks, and multi-story apartment buildings, creating a well-balanced urban landscape. If you ever have the chance to visit Kyiv, I can assure you it’s worth it. Despite the ongoing challenges and attacks, measures are in place to ensure safety, and you’ll find the city’s charm and resilience inspiring.

Caitlin Morrissey 

We would love to. From your understanding – because it does sound like quite an incredible geography that Kyiv is at the centre of – what explains the emergence of Kyiv in this location, from a geographical point of view? What was it about that area that prompted a settlement to begin all those years ago?

Denys Nazarenko

No, I mean, it always has been, and still is, one of the largest logistics hubs. There are vast areas suitable for growing plants and producing food, making it an ideal place even centuries ago. It has long been a place where people could settle, establish themselves, and grow from there.

Looking at the 20th Century history, if you properly identify the key points of management, control, and development across the city, it becomes a kind of navigation guide for anyone coming here. The city’s structure and evolution offer a blueprint for understanding its role and significance over time.

Caitlin Morrissey 

And can you tell us a little bit about the relationship between Kyiv and other large cities in Ukraine, and what differentiates Kyiv's role in the country compared to other cities? Recognising that it's a political capital and the logistics centre, is there sort of any soft power or influence that Kyiv has that other cities don't have? We're here to learn from you about what the relationship between those cities are, but those are just some ideas, perhaps.

Denys Nazarenko

No, I mean, if we take a metaphorical perspective, imagine holding a ball and drawing positions on it - a far-left and a far-right position. Kyiv would likely find itself in a balanced middle position, and it is designed to be that way. In some sense, we are a conservative city.

Kyiv is very quick to adopt new technological innovations - what you might call technocratic. However, when it comes to cultural developments, it is less likely to be the birthplace of something entirely new. You won’t see a new wave of punk rock or a groundbreaking movement of painters emerging here. These kinds of innovations are more likely to originate in Eastern, Western, or Southern Ukraine. Yet, when they do, they tend to mature and grow to their full potential in Kyiv.

Kyiv has an inherent sense of responsibility. While it remains open and supportive, there’s a strong internal sense of high standards when it comes to introducing something new. This is because, through the city’s network of connections, it’s understood that anything emerging here could influence a significant portion of the population. So, there’s caution, but this leads to Kyiv becoming a place where the best ideas and movements find their peak - whether in terms of financial backing, cultural impact, or broader influence.

Kyiv connects with other cities in Ukraine in both critical and peaceful times. In urgent situations, like during Russian attacks, we share medical supplies and offer support where needed. During calmer times, we engage in exchanges through our network of universities and innovation hubs. These connections are practical pathways for driving progress and change, illustrating how Kyiv acts as a central point of influence while balancing innovation and responsibility.

Greg Clark 

I've got three questions, if I may, can I come in with those now? When you were talking about the geography, I just wanted to ask you about the climate a little bit. I understand that in Kyiv you have very hot summers and very cold winters, and you have a beautiful spring, and you have a kind of glorious autumn. And doesn't surprise me because Ukraine is a massive agricultural country, and the four seasons are very helpful. Is that right? And what does that mean for the lifestyle of the city? Do you have very different behaviour in the middle of winter from the middle of summer? Does the city mark the movement from one season to another? How does the climate affect the life of the city?

Denys Nazarenko

No, I mean, if you look at the map of Ukraine, we have, let’s say, three distinct large areas. In the north, there’s the forested region. In the middle, it’s a mixed area. And in the south, I wouldn’t call it a desert, but it’s more arid, with sandy terrain, for example. Kyiv is in a unique position, as it encompasses elements of all these regions.

It has become much harder since, I would say, around 2010. I remember that during my childhood, New Year celebrations were always very cold, with lots of snow. This year, just a few weeks ago, there was no snow on New Year’s Eve. That really reflects the impact of climate change, and we feel it.

In terms of activity, spring and autumn are probably the most vibrant seasons. During summer and winter, people tend to move quickly between home and work, trying to avoid the harsher effects of the weather as much as possible.

Greg Clark 

In the summer, I get the impression it's a very outdoors city. You spend a lot of time in the streets, in the park, by the river, and in the winter, you're quicker, I understand. Is that right?

Denys Nazarenko

Yeah.

Greg Clark

Yeah. I have two other questions to ask you about Denys, because you mentioned earlier, that you're a guitarist, so why don't you tell us just a little bit about what kind of music is produced in Kyiv. What do the songs from Kyiv really sing about, and what's the musical styles that are produced and, you know, originated in the city?

Denys Nazarenko

It’s a challenging question. I would say that, when the weather is nice, you’ll see plenty of busking musicians in the streets, especially on weekends. They might perform folk songs or modern hits - anything from current youth favourites to Taylor Swift or even Led Zeppelin. You’ll find a bit of everything.

Greg Clark

Western, generally western music?

Denys Nazarenko

It will be Ukrainian, it will be Western, and you might still hear some people performing russian songs - typically from the Soviet era, tied to memories of their youth. People tend to gravitate towards music they heard in their childhood.

Because Kyiv has many diasporas, you can also hear Polish, Georgian, and Romanian music in the city. I would say those are the most common influences. I rarely hear French or Spanish music, but they occasionally appear, especially through popular charts on music platforms. So, essentially, you can find whatever you’re looking for.

On a personal note, regarding the guitar, one event I particularly enjoy is the Annual International Guitar Festival. It usually takes place between the 5th and 10th of December at the Kyiv Philharmonic. Musicians from all over the world gather to play classical acoustic guitars. From Monday to Friday, the event features quarterfinals and semi-finals, and then on Saturday and Sunday, you can enjoy beautiful renditions of the best classical pieces. Truly, there’s something for everyone to enjoy.

Greg Clark 

Wow, great. And, and you personally, what kind of music do you produce?

Denys Nazarenko

I would describe it as a blend of funk, psychedelic rock, and classical influences - something along those lines. It’s quite unusual, even strange in a way.

Greg Clark 

Lovely. Well, I'd like to hear it sometime. And then my third question is about technology because you are the Chief Digital Officer for the city, and so I'm interested in how this community of high social capital, high responsibility, mutual, how do they use technology? What is the technology habit of Kyiv? Is it more like Tel Aviv, where everything is done on an app? Is it more like, let's say, London, where half of it's done on an app? And what's the technology utilisation habit of the Kyiv people?

Denys Nazarenko

I wouldn’t want to claim the role of Chief Digital Officer, as that position is held by our Deputy Mayor. I serve as an advisor to the CIO. In my role, I oversee the digital strategy and the international scope for smart cities, connected communities, and collaboration in advanced areas. Our approach is somewhat like London’s. We have an innovation ecosystem that encompasses industrial parks, technological laboratories (such as a 5G lab in Kyiv), a network of technical universities, and small companies and start-ups developing innovative solutions.

In terms of service management, we were fortunate to experience a significant boost in the development of banking services from the early 2000s. For instance, one-time password technology originated in Ukraine to enhance transaction security. Today, we are highly advanced in banking services, particularly through mobile apps.

For city services, the Kyiv Digital app includes features such as emergency notifications, transportation ticketing, utilities payments, environmental monitoring (covering radiation and air quality), and tools for e-democracy. This functionality is the core purpose of the app. For traditional service areas, such as restaurants or nail salons, there are dedicated apps for each, along with healthcare solutions. I’d say that the most critical areas are covered, one way or another, through digital tools.

Greg Clark 

And you sense it's a high digital participation community, it sounds like?

Denys Nazarenko

Well, to give you an example with the Kyiv Digital app: in the Kyiv City area, which has 3.5 million inhabitants, we have 3 million users on the app – over 95% adoption.

Greg Clark

Wow, that’s high.

Denys Nazarenko

Yes, exactly. And it’s not as if we’re saying, “You must use the app, or we’ll shoot this dog.” No, no, it has simply been a useful tool for people. I would say it’s highly adopted. Even in my own case, I managed to get my mother to use a smartphone. I told her, “I’ve uploaded a new video on YouTube - you should watch it again!”

Greg Clark 

Fantastic. Back to you, Caitlin.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Thank you. You earlier mentioned some of the folklore songs that children sing at Christmas as being sort of deep-rooted in Kyiv’s history. And we have a question here about the stories or the songs that unite the city or that are part of the city social and cultural fabric. And can you tell us if there are any, any specifically that stand out to you as being songs or stories about the city that are sort of often told or told to people upon visiting the city as a way of characterising it?

Denys Nazarenko

I would say there are probably up to five songs that every Kyivan knows by heart. There are also some memorable landmarks, such as the statue dedicated to the founders of Kyiv. It’s become a tradition for people to meet in front of it, making it a cultural imprint.

If you want to experience the coolest, most beautiful, and fascinating aspects of Kyiv, simply walking through the streets for three to four hours would give you a good sense of the city. However, if you plan to visit museums and explore different parts of the city, you will need at least a week or more.

One way to immerse yourself in Kyiv’s vibrant culture - and forgive me if this is not politically correct - would be to visit one of its iconic bars. For example, there is a bar called BarmanDictat, which has been staunchly pro-Ukrainian and patriotic, even before the war. It has maintained that spirit ever since. When notable figures such as Mr. Blinken or Stephen Fry visit Kyiv, they often go there. It’s a unique place, creating a safe space where military personnel and civilians can come together to enjoy life, fostering a sense of connection.

As a side note, we recently conducted extensive research on mental health to understand the impact of war on the people of Kyiv. We examined the experiences of military personnel and their families, as well as students, teachers, and their families. The research also explored organisational and technical measures that might help address these challenges.

Interestingly, but not surprisingly, one of the key findings was the importance of fostering a sense of connection and belonging. This must be established from the very beginning. If someone doesn’t feel safe, they need to find someone they can talk to or lean on for support. They also need access to reliable sources of information and guidance.

Caitlin Morrissey 

It makes sense. Thank you for explaining that. And then in terms of just bringing this conversation into the more recent history and maybe the current moment in Kyiv, how would you be able to characterise the way that the city responded to the full-scale invasion two years ago, and how has that evolved? What did resilience mean in that moment, or bravery? What was profoundly Kyivan about the way that the city responded?

Denys Nazarenko

I would say that we have sort of learned to, or become accustomed to, the new reality. Yes, it might be frightening or overwhelming, but you still need to think clearly. My personal way of coping was simply to work as hard as possible. I was working my usual 10 to 12 hours daily, and then I would run around my district. We created a special Telegram group where we checked if anyone needed anything - whether it was something from the pharmacy or food, for example. My friends and I would try to arrange help for those in need.

In terms of resilience, it was truly invaluable to have a team of people, both in the community and in the workplace, who genuinely cared for and supported one another. You may have seen interviews with Viktoriya or some of my other colleagues describing how, in the first few months, many of us were spending days and nights at work - living there and doing whatever was necessary. It was incredibly challenging, but we had a clear purpose.

I remember we had a notification feature that had been developed during COVID, and when the full-scale invasion began, we knew we needed to adapt it for emergency notifications. Within less than a day, the team came together, recognising the urgency of the situation. We said, “We need to do this. We need to inform and protect our people.” That resilience came from a shared sense of responsibility and common purpose.

When it comes to teamwork, I believe three key elements are essential to having a true team: shared values, trust, and shared experiences. For us, shared values meant caring about the city and prioritising survival. Trust came from knowing we could rely on one another. Finally, we built and enriched our shared experiences during those challenging times. It was a powerful and unifying experience.

Caitlin Morrissey 

And just one final question before we wrap up. What does the future hold for Kyiv? And how will its DNA shape that future, as far as you see it?

Denys Nazarenko

I would say that the City of Kyiv will be well ahead of its time in terms of technological advancement and data management, including data navigation, enabling the creation of meaningful experiences for its citizens. At the same time, we will have creative members of the community who will help maintain balance. This will ensure that Kyiv does not transform into a dystopian reality akin to 1984.

While we will become more technological, I believe we may see a reduction in certain physical experiences, such as attending theatres or live shows, as these might increasingly take place in the metaverse. However, no technology can truly replace real, in-person experiences. Hopefully, all these advancements will serve to enhance human connections rather than making people indispensable, completely independent, or arrogant. This is how I envision it.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Thank you, Denys. Do you feel like you've been able to say everything that you wanted to say about the DNA of Kyiv, and if there was anything else that you would want to add that we haven't been able to bring out through the questions that we've asked you so far?

Denys Nazarenko

I would say we are discussing three cities we are focusing on: London, New York, and Amsterdam. Each of them comes in different shapes and forms, so we have healthy competition ahead to demonstrate that we can achieve something even better than the best. I am truly grateful for all the support and deeply appreciative of the global smart city technological communities that have supported the city of Kyiv since the start of the war. Thank you so much for that.

Once again, this connected community truly matters. It reminds us that we are not alone, and it shows that people in significant countries genuinely care. This support is invaluable - you simply cannot put a price on it.

Caitlin Morrissey 

Thank you so much, Denys.